Watch our webinar for an inside look into the power of PE-RT for a wide range of high-temperature pressurized piping applications including industrial process water, district heating, water service lines, oil and gas, mining, geothermal, and more.

Key insights include:

• Benefits of PE-RT pipe for high-temperature applications
• How PE-RT offers superior performance and sustainability
• The longevity and durability of PE-RT pipe

Don’t miss this opportunity to revolutionize your piping projects.

Garry Bouvet  00:01

Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to another edition of ISCO insights. I’m your host, Garry Bouvet. And thank you for joining us today talkin all things hurt polyethylene graves temperature. Joining me today, we have a very special guest from Dow Chemical, Dell Doyle. So we’ll meet him here in just a second. Before we get into this presentation, I want to go through a list of instructions for this webinar, all of your video and audio is turned off, which will enhance our video quality for all the viewers. If you’ve got any troubleshooting issues with your presentation, being able to view it, hear it, use the chat box, we will do our best to try and help you out. And if you’ve got specific questions related to the topics that we’re covering, please drop them in the q&a tab that you’ll find at the bottom of your screen. And we’ll respond to those as quickly as we can. Some of them I may do live on air, and any of the rest of them will make sure that you get the answers in follow up that will come after the show’s over. So thank you again for joining us. And as I said, welcoming our very special guests, good friend of mine colleague in the industry. Dell Doyle from Dow Chemical Dell. Welcome to the ISCO insights today.

Dell Doyle  01:30

Garry, thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to this.

Garry Bouvet  01:33

Well, fantastic. Well, one, this audience may not know who you are, and what your role is with Dow Chemical. So why don’t you give us a little bit of your background, though.

Dell Doyle  01:45

Yeah, good. So guys, I have a PhD in organic chemistry. I been in the industry for 10 years, actually 12 years now. Sorry, I started my career in a composite pipe where I designed stuff for shallow water, onshore and above grade installations. Then I individually moved to dow where I’ve been working on some of the polyethylene, that you currently use right now. Fantastic.

Garry Bouvet  02:14

Well, I mean, I think your title is a chemist, right? I, I don’t mingle and I don’t socialize with too many chemists. What is a typical day in a chemists world look like Dell? Well,

Dell Doyle  02:29

unfortunately, I’m not a typical chemist. When it comes to this. I went to school to learn how to functionalize carbon nanomaterials. Unfortunately, I don’t do that my day to day work here where what I do is I’m externally customer facing r&d research and development. And I work with people like yourself on various projects in the industry, when they have difficult questions, or they have problems that they really need to be solved. They will I’ll be there interface within Dow to help them get the resources they need. Or if you haven’t specialized testing, I can help facilitate that as well.

Garry Bouvet  03:07

Very, very interesting work, I’m sure to say the least. Well, we really appreciate you joining us Dell. And we’re going to talk thing, you know all things polyethylene and really the PERT, which Dow has created and brought to us in the marketplace. So let’s go ahead and dive into this topic today. And we want to start with kind of what I’ve heard from people throughout the industry, in my years of doing this is corrosion things that they’re dealing with, with legacy pipes, right. And this is a natural occurrence with any metallics, and there’s billions of dollars spent every year trying to prevent the very natural occurrence of metallic pipes, right. And it’s the corrosion, which could be to Berkey Leyshon, it could be external corrosion from hot soils. It could be internal corrosion from whatever’s inside the pipe, right, any number of things that they’re trying to prevent from happening. And Dell, you and I both know, there’s an excellent, easy solution to this problem. And that is, thermal plastics. HDPE pipe is a great solution for this corrosion issue that so many have to deal with, within their systems. Some of the key features of polyethylene that it brings is one the main way that it’s joined, and that’s using Fusion which creates a monolithic piping system. And we’ll talk more about fusion as we actually get into see an actual demonstration of the fusion. That fusion also provides a zero we Gage, right huge benefit with this piping system. There’s no There’s no leaks, because there’s essentially no joint segments, right? It’s one continuous piece of pipe. Once they are all fused together, multiple installation methods trenchless things like directional drilling, pipe bursting slip lining, or the traditional open cut method. You open up a ditch and you lay the pipe in it. Polyethylene has 100 year design life. Nadel. I’ve been I’ve been doing this for over 30 years, when I started in this, there was only a 50 year design life on polyethylene. Tell us a little bit why Why have how’s it gone to 100 years?

Dell Doyle  05:47

Yeah, good question. So as we get more and more experience, the we understand more about her materials. You know, if you look at the DPI, the P handbook, chapter one, I think it’s page four or five talks about durability. And there’s line there, that’s actually real, that I just keep reflecting upon. You know, it talks about the P pops industry, that estimation for the service life is conservatively 50 to 100 years, you know, obviously, it’s provided if it’s properly designed and service. But that’s just amazing. It’s really cool how the materials are getting so advanced that we that we’re debating how long do these actually last? So we’ve exceeded what we think that it’s going to go for the 50 years. And now, here we are, kind of figure out how far ahead of that as they’re gonna go.

Garry Bouvet  06:44

Fantastic. Yep. And Donald see that changing anytime soon, we’ll probably talk more about that. polyethylene pipe is also very compatible with other piping systems. Essentially, we can transition to pretty much any any material, whether it be steel, or ductile iron or PVC, cast iron, or whatever the case may be, we pretty much have a transition method available to connect to that. And sizes continued to grow as well with the pipe production. We’re seeing pipe sizes upwards of 138 inch in diameter. And I expect that to continue to evolve as time goes on. Polyethylene also brings Performance and Physical characteristics to any any system that you have. With traditional or what I call standard HDPE pipe, we have a temperature range of minus 40 to 140. You’ve got burst strength of greater than four times the operating pressure. Do you’ve got hydraulic efficiencies that tuberculate motion that we saw in that earlier photo is non existent with polyethylene pipe, there’s a C factor of 150. And that’s for the life of that pipe. Whether it’s day one or 100 years from now, you’re still going to have a C factor of 150. And you have all the AW wa approvals if you’re looking at a potable water application, polyethylene provides all of that with ninus 901 and 906 ratings for a WWE a certification some of the physical characteristics lightweight and flexible, comparative to the traditional cast iron ductile iron materials, polyethylene has UV protection because the black carbon that is embedded into the into the resin speaking of resin dal and you that’s what your guys especially is it now? What color is the actual resin ID that is used to produce the pipe?

Dell Doyle  09:07

Good question. We call it natural or it’s colorless. And so whenever most of the people in North America, they take a 93 and a half percent natural and then they use six and a half percent Carbon Black to blend the carbon black and there they do inland mixing.

Garry Bouvet  09:26

Right. So that little bit of carbon black that is added into the the opaque resin that you guys produce gives us the black color of the pipe in nature, right and that gives it all that UV stabilization that we talked about. Absolutely.

Dell Doyle  09:44

And UV stabilization is actually it’s pretty solid. It is extremely stable. I have tests that have been going for. I don’t know if it’s up to 30,000 hours yet at very high UV I’m levels trying to initiate some degradation. And I hope that eventually we’ll be writing this report to get out in the general public. But it’s, it’s probably some of the best protection that you can get against UV degradation. Yeah,

Garry Bouvet  10:15

so we don’t have to worry about covering or protecting that pipe from UV. And in a real world experience, we’ve got 1000s and 1000s of feet of pipe particularly outlasted a lot of the mining applications in Arizona, Utah and Nevada. That pipe has been above ground 25 3040 years still in service still active, still operating. So yeah, we know firsthand the UV resistance that polyethylene has. Polyethylene is also very fatigue and surge tolerant, because it’s a flexible material, right? It has the ability to handle surges have one and a half times for recurring surge, and two times the working pressure for an occasional surge. So that’s a huge safety benefit for that polyethylene brings to an application impact durability. This is one that I find, you know, quite interesting Dell, you know, people we talked about thermal plastics, people say well, it, it’s a weaker material, it’s softer, right? It’s not as robust as an hardiest steel pipe is or metal pipe. And I kind of think I beg to differ a little bit, when we talk about durability, because one of the methods that is used quite frequently in certain applications is a method, what we call squeeze off where we actually can squeeze the pipe completely flat, to shut off flow to allow for repair, or you know, some other type of work, maintenance, whatever needs to be done, and then release that tool, the pipe has not been damaged, and actually just goes back into service and goes back to its original shape. I mean, do you know of any other materials that you can do that with Dell? Now,

Dell Doyle  12:12

it’s really quite remarkable. And it’s just when you get into designing systems, you know, the ability to handle cyclic fatigue, you know, it’s just amazing. I, I keep a piece of poly pipe near my desk. And this is what I just bend, you know, just slightly just whenever I’m talking on conference calls, and I’m just constantly amazed at the durability of it. But what I really think about is, you know, seismic areas where the ground is shifting in my hometown and Lake Jackson, Texas, we had severe drought last year, because of the severe drought. I had a rigid piping system in my front yard. That that it needless to say, I’ve had the city out there to help me fix water leaks quite a bit. Now my neighbor has the water leak, and we’re still dealing with these issues. From the it’s it’s just the rigid material just doesn’t bend with the ground. And that’s where one of the real advantages of poly is, and then when you get poly that’s has additional benefits like pert or higher temperatures, it’s just a win for everyone. Yep,

Garry Bouvet  13:24

very good. And then the last last physical characteristic, the corrosion resistance, very high pH range available with polyethylene. And that corrosion that we saw in the earlier pictures, again, is a non issue with ACP because water doesn’t absorb into the pipe, it beads off, so you don’t get that deterioration of the material. So typical polyethylene pipe. So as great benefits, right, but one of its its weaknesses is is elevated temperatures as the temperature increases. Above, you know, up to upwards of 80 degrees Fahrenheit and higher, right, we have to start compensating for the pressure capacity of the pipe. And here you can see the table for the temperature compensation multipliers, your temperatures continue to increase, your working pressure is going to decrease on that polyethylene pipe. As you can see, at 140 degrees Fahrenheit, you’re at a point six multiplier. So let’s take the Dr. 11. For example. 200 psi working pressure of 73 degrees Fahrenheit at 140. That working pressures now dropped to 120 psi. And once we surpass 140 degrees Fahrenheit only up blame piping itself is limited to gravity application only. So no pressure above 140 on standard or traditional polyethylene pipe. And that is the area that kind of a missing area for us in the HP not having material to go above that temperature threshold of 140. Fahrenheit. And thanks to Dow and our friends up performance pipe, we now have a product called per polyethylene raise temperature. Now, what that pipe is, is still a 4710 HDPE pipe, all of the same benefits that we talked about earlier just discussed, but now has the ability to handle higher temperatures upwards to 280 degrees Fahrenheit under pressure, something that we didn’t have previous. So as you can see, many of the benefits are the same. Talked about one difference here and it’s looking at that last bullet in the wall thing the site for four inches, even five inches in thickness being produced, that’s been fairly new that’s in the last 10 to 15 years, the ability to make thicker and heavier pipes. With the per product we’re limited to about two to two and a quarter inch wall thickness as a general rule for what can be produced in the front resin. Dell, can you just talked a little bit about why some of that may be one of the reasons why we’re limited in the wall thicknesses that can be manufactured.

Dell Doyle  16:57

Yes, sir. Yeah, we I think the largest pipe we made made a 42 inch pipe and then a 20 inch TR nine I think are the two largest installs that we have. It’s unfortunately, the this is the first generation of the PIR top materials. And so we took our best shot forward and the limits are it has to do with the melt strength of the material it just doesn’t have in the pipe making world we call anti slump the material just just flows too much when it comes out of the pipe extruder and you’re not able to maintain wall che. Unfortunately, it is what it is. Now there are developments to the natural place where people would go is okay if you can do two and a quarter. Why can’t you do four inches? Why can’t you do six inches so those are natural development targets that you’d want to do for generation to this product. I assure you that that is in the targets as many people

Garry Bouvet  18:01

that good some of the physical characteristics all the same that you got with with polyethylene. So really this is really just the real big difference with pert is the ability to handle pressure applications above 140 degrees up to 180 degrees Fahrenheit, which is becoming more and more common in the industry. As I said performance pipe is the pipe manufacturer Dow Chemical is the manufacturer or supplier of the resin that makes the that’s what the pipe is made from and performance pipe these standards as I said 4710 resin same ASTM standards that the 4710 complies with and they have multiple manufacturing locations in the United States and they manufacture the molded fittings which are eight inch and down your molded elbows your tees, branch saddles etc manufactured out of their Bloomfield facility. Now some of the differences again temperature and pressure with or you still have the same verse strength the four times the working pressure the C factor 150 And you’re your non toxic you’re a WWE A’s your C 906 approvals, the temperature range minus 49 to 180. Then these last two bullets Dell want to focus on these a little bit more a cc three rated chlorine resistance with the per pipe that I believe is the highest in the industry. Is it not? Yes sir. It is. And that is that I mean that’s a that’s a big thing, right? It is the Providing that chlorine resistance, especially when we look at some of these high temperature, industrial type of applications, you know, these discharged these processes that they go through which, you know, has potential significant chemicals in it, right.

Dell Doyle  20:20

Yeah, and I think you’re going to talk a little bit about a pulp and paper mill. We just serve all these projects in the past, um, you know, as you’re looking at this, as you get above 140, you really need to have specifically tailored stabilization packages in there, which the PERT resin does, um, it’s not, it’s okay, you know, most of the people are seven times past CC three. That’s, that’s kind of a given now in today’s market, but whenever you whenever you have a project that has a higher than normal oxidation, oxidation load, you want to kind of understand how much does my resin go past the season three, you know, you may not be able to get a true design life out of it with a high oxidation load. But getting a material that lasts the longest and the CEC through test is a good indication, you’re gonna have one of the best, longest lasting products on the market. So you can also put this to the plumbing world, where they have a standard called ASTM F 2023. And that has a CL CL rating, they have 135. So it’s a little differently, but the products do get CL five rating on that. Take some additional testing and listing but it just shows how strong the oxidative resistances of these materials.

Garry Bouvet  21:42

Okay, fantastic. And then last bullet, we talked about 20 times these 4710 requirements for SCR stress crack resistance. You’ve got they’ve actually tested the pipe 20 times higher than what you typically get in the cell classification test requirement, which I believe on the pen test is 500 hours. Yes, sir. Yeah. For the seven classification. You guys with the PERT have gone far above that for SCR?

Dell Doyle  22:22

Yeah. So unfortunately, these tests go a long time. You know, that for the PERT, we have 10,000 hours on our Tech Data Sheets. We I forget how many total stations we have. But we have we literally have closets with Penn stations in there, that we put air handling to keep it keep them stabilized. But because these things just run forever, some of the materials will go 10 1215 16,000 hours, and at some point, we just stopped them, you know, because it’s what is 11,000 hours gonna give you more support over 10,000. Is that better than nine? You know, I don’t know. But that’s usually where we stopped our materials added about 10,000 hours. And that’s where you get the 20 times an excess? Yeah.

Garry Bouvet  23:09

Yeah. So fantastic. That is some some really neat, neat the testing that goes on there. Very

Dell Doyle  23:17

castling. One more thing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, on that previous slide. So there’s a lot of people here with projects that are quite difficult. I would encourage you to, to work with ISCO work with your pop manufacturers work and ask them to work with their resin companies, whether it’s Dow whether it’s CPQ, in Eos, or, or whoever it is in the market that supplied PE and if you have something that’s a little non standard, like water utilities that are are extremely extreme, that are real extreme on the risk profile, and they want pipes of the last absolute longest that they can have come to me and said, Dell, where can we get some of this pert for that? You know, I think it’s I never want to say well, I think you’re over engineering this because everyone has their own risk profile. But if you work with the resin companies, we generally have the data and we know where our resins rank, if they’re 10,000 hours, 12,000 16,000 hours, how much above CC threes ago, 8000 hours ago, 16,000 hours in the CC three test, we have an idea about this. Now while we can’t translate this to exact design life for you, but we can tell you which one’s gonna give you the longest design life for that kind of fit for service for your project. So please don’t hesitate to talk with with your ISCO reps. They’ll put you in contact with Garry and then they can work with a pop manufacturer and go back to the resin guys. But we are here to serve you as an industry. We’re here to support your projects and to help you with some of these difficult things after a little it’s just non standard. Anyways, I just want to say that as you’re talking about the stress crack in the chlorine resistance because that’s a lot of what I do in my role is enough Hey, something’s projects. Thanks, Garry. All right,

Garry Bouvet  25:03

no worries Thank you Dell. So let’s go look at the temperature and pressure now for for PERT. And by Dr. You can see at 73 degrees that’s the same pressure ratings that we saw earlier for conventional 4710 HDPE pipe. The big advantage for the PERT in most applications is that area above 140 degrees and higher being able to handle temperatures up to 180 under a pressure application and here it is by different DRS you can see the pressure capacity which above 140 for traditional 4710 is zero psi. So this is where this is a big area gap that this pipe is filled in for us in the industry. Well systems not complete, great to have pipe but if you don’t have fittings to go with it, it’s not doesn’t really do you much good and fortunately, a full array of fittings are available whether it be molded fittings in eight inch and smaller or if we need to fabricate a fittings for you know 10 inch and above pipe diameters a wide range transition fittings, connections to different materials, elbows, tees, reducing tees reducers all those that whole system is available in the product and so make get you a complete system. Another question that we get quite frequently is, you know, a does this pipe need to be insulated and how do we do that. And polyethylene pipe in general and Perth can be pre insulated button. There’s multiple manufacturers, suppliers of of insulated materials, we provide them the the pipe and the fittings, they do the installation and get it out to the job site. Once the you can see they leave a section of pipe sticking out on each end to allow for proper fusion joining. Once that’s completed, then they have joint kits to fill in the area where that fusion had occurred. To give you a fully insulated system, we deal with this a lot in a hot water applications on campus energies, Colleges District Energy, that type of thing. Typically most common, we’re going to see about two inch of thickness of the foam insulation around the carrier pipe. And then there’s an HDPE jacket going over that insulation to give it that protection in varied situations, getting multiple people that we work with the supply the pipe to that can insulate it. And for those who don’t want to do pre installation, Gill slate is another application for insulating the pipes. And we’ve done a few projects with this where you install your main pipe system. And then you simply pour the gills oscillate around the pipes from you know, an enclosed and encapsulate that piping system. Within that phone. You can see a couple of different job site pictures here, the pre trench setup. And then there on the right, you can actually see the the white powdered form kind of looks like flour, completely encasing the entire piping system. So two different methods to really achieve the same thing is kind of maintaining that constant temperature of the piping system from point A to point B so that your water temperatures are fairly constant throughout your system. So let’s talk about joining methods. How do we put this pipe system together? I don’t know the audience of people how many are familiar with polyethylene in general and how it joins. So we’re going to walk through an actual but fusion process with you. This is the very most common method of joining HDPE pipe and I need to start the video here Built helps if I hit the right buttons. There you can see we’ve got the fusion machine we’ve got two pieces of pipe, we’re going to be clamping into this fusion machine these jaws. This clamping procedure is designed to not only hold an anchor the pipe to allow the other steps in the process, but it also assists in rerouting the pipe and helping them get aligned properly. Sometimes with polyethylene being flexible, it it will expand a contract sitting out in the sun. Now we drop a facer in between the two pipe ends as blades on both sides, that phasers going to rotate around and trim the ends of both sides pipe squaring them up to each other, also removing any oxidation layer, getting it down to clean virgin polyethylene. You can see the shavings the trimmings off of those pipe ends, we’re going to remove that from the fusion area and double and double check our alignment. Our high low or side to side want to make sure both pipes are perfectly square aligned with each other to allow for proper joining. Since my dirty gloves touched one of the ends of the pipe, take a little isopropyl alcohol and simply wipe the area on the pipe ends. Next step is dropping a heater in between the two pipe ends about 425 degrees. And I bring the pipe ends in contact with that heater, I reduced pressure so there’s no pressure being applied, I’m simply contacting note pipe ends to that eater plate, letting it melt for a prescribed period of time, remove that heat or you’d see the molten ends, I push those two ends together. And using pressure determined by the size and thickness hold that pressure until it’s cool. Once it’s completed, we have a completed thorough but fusion joint one continuous piece of pipe there, that’s a stronger stronger than the pipe itself. That is the blood fusion method. And that process is the same whether I’m doing one inch pipe or 88 inch pipe, I’m doing the same steps that I just did there. The only thing that would change is the mechanics of the equipment that I’m using based on the size of the pipe. So really a very time proven method for joining HDPE pipe. And that process is the same for pert as well as regular HDPE pipe. Let’s see here. Sec. I’ve got a couple of questions. Let me take a quick Gander while we’re moving. Francisco asked how do you handle the thermal expansion of these pipes? When you have 180 degrees, water flowing through it? Really good question, Francisco. If the pipe is buried, the the pipe is going to be anchored and held in place with the with the ground the burial around the pipe. And polyethylene with one of its inherent properties is expansion and contraction. So if the pipe is anchored longitudinally, the the pipe, you know, we’ll expand you know, outwardly, right it’ll adjust in shape and kind of maybe swell from time to time. But that’s the beauty of it, it doesn’t cause any problem because everything’s fused together, it’s all functioning is one, one piece of pipe one system. Now, if we have transitions to other legacy materials that maybe aren’t restrained properly, then then we may get into having to put in a transition fitting, or excuse me a thrust block or something to transfer all that energy from the pipe. But polyethylene is a fully fused system is really self restrained at that point. If we get above ground, then we may have other considerations that we have to look at. We’re going to have to provide anchor points and so forth for the pipe. So a lot of and we can help with all of that in the design, depending on the application that you’re looking at. Great question. Anybody else out there keep those questions coming in what are some of the markets and the opportunities for per pie? And these are just the Some of them that we’ve actually either had discussions with, we’ve actually done some projects with industrial energy, district energies of big wind college campuses, corporate campuses that are using hot water. Instead of steam for their hot water, you know, applications, mining, pulp and paper mills, we’re going to talk about an example of one of those oil and gas gathering. renewable natural gas, we’re even doing some landfill applications, high temperature methane collection, inside some of the landfills. We’ve also worked with methane collection out of a dairy farm, the higher the temperature, the faster those micro organisms break down the the waste that is collected, and so they’re using those at a higher temperature for, you know, transitioning and converting all that to methane gas that’s then being distributed into the distribution system. So a lot of different places that we see PERT and there’s probably even more that we’re not even familiar with right now. One of the case studies that I want to reference first is a college campus, that’s Texas a&m, down in your neck of the woods, Dell. The Texas a&m had problems for years in their water distribution system, they had ductile iron system, and they were constantly battling, you know, leakage, you know, upwards of 40 to 50 gallons per minute, which obviously is a big water loss to them, as well as heat loss for their students. This is a big campus, I mean, this is a, this is a city, right over 60,000 students go to Texas a&m. So big disruption if they’re not getting hot water to all the dorms and, and facilities and buildings. And it really wanted to try to minimize the interruptions, disruption for students on campus. And their solution was switching over their systems to 20 and 24 inch which is used for their chilled water piping, that was standard HDPE pipe. And then our hot water system was transitioned to a 12 inch for pipe using the high temperature think their design is about 170 degrees Fahrenheit on their hot water. And once they started training transitioning over, and they obviously hit their their their highest pain point areas. First, they saw a significant drop in their leakage all the way down to about three to seven gallons per minute versus the 4050 that they were dealing with across campus. And that was just hitting our hotspot. So we’ve still got multiple phases to go to do a complete conversion, but a big, big change in what they’re having to deal with on site. And they are very, very pleased with the whole polyethylene pipe system. The second case study for the PERT as a pulp and paper mill up in Vancouver at a camp for and at the time, and we thought this was about Dell, I think you were involved a little bit in this. I think this was about eight or nine years ago that this project this was one of the first projects I can remember for the product, sir. And their existing system was a FRP fiberglass pipe that was showing evidence of SPIRE collapse cracking a complete delamination as you can see in some of these pictures from the pipe that they took out of the outer wall. So that was a big concern for them. Right this is a discharge line from their processing, Scott some bleach content in it. And so, we looked at per pipe as a opportunity for them. The per pipe reduce their overall project cost by about a third and not only just from the material costs itself, but really in the installation. What it took to do a joint of a A 30 inch pipe with polyethylene pipe versus the doing a single joint of the fiberglass pipe, you can see they were able to get about eight joints per day on the fusion of the pipe of polyethylene pir. And versus just two sections together for the fiberglass. So big, big labor savings for them on that, to kind of summarize that project. It was 3200 feet, total pipe. It was stalled adjacent. So they kept the other line functioning while until they got this new pert line in, they ended up saving in total of about $2 million. Going with the PERT over replacing with fiberglass again, eliminated quite a few fittings, because of the flexibility of polyethylene pipe, they were able to bend that pipe around without elbows. And they use the data logger for fusions, which monitors the fusion process, temperatures pressures that you’re doing, and the times making sure that joints are done right. That data logger allow them to eliminate the need for a hydrostatic test. So again, another cost saving benefit going with the polyethylene and fusion and fusion. All right, we’ve got one audience participation collector that I need to ask Barry, if you would mind pulling that up. And for our audience members, if you could just take a second and answer if you have an active or an upcoming project, where per could be a solution to your piping needs. If you could just take that quick poll and answer that. I would greatly appreciate it. All right. Thank you very much for that. We appreciate everybody’s input there. Now Now I will I’m going back to that camp for project. You know, that’s been in service, I think about eight years now. I recently reached out to him and asked him how it’s performing what you know what they’re seeing with the product, and the piping system. Everybody that was involved from their, on their end with the project is either retired or is no longer with the company. But the folks there that I did talk to said they haven’t. They haven’t touched it, they haven’t had to do anything with that pipe. In over eight years. I think that hid itself is a great testament to the value and benefit that part’s already provided them on site, comparative to what they were constantly fighting and battling with the fiberglass pipe.

Dell Doyle  43:20

Yeah, absolutely. And help help jog my memory I get in a couple of these pulp and paper mills confused? Was Canford the one that they’re replacing the FRP every two to three years up to four years.

Garry Bouvet  43:32

I believe that I believe that’s the case. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember, I don’t know that they were doing the whole piping system. Correct. You’re constantly having to repair sections of that correct? Yeah,

Dell Doyle  43:46

I remember that. Because I remember when they first asked, they asked about design light, and we couldn’t really give them that. But we but what we assured them was it’s going to last longer what you’re currently using, and so far, it’s it’s produced, it’s performed. Awesome. You know, whenever you’re asking them for updates on this, I’ve just found it really interesting that they kind of, they’re not focused on it at all. They’re not worried about it. So I think that’s really a testimony to the stability of the product. I’d love to be able to get up there in next year within do maybe a 10 year look back and try to understand, I think it’d be a fantastic case study.

Garry Bouvet  44:26

Yeah, I think it would be too because I as I said, I think that was one of the first North American projects with a per pipe.

Dell Doyle  44:34

Yeah, that then a&m I think was next. Yes,

Garry Bouvet  44:38

that is that is correct. All right. We’ve got a question. delet actually, Derek must be reading my mind because he or see my outline. Because Derek’s asked can you share if and when hired temperature next generation PIR may be available on the market. So, thank you very much, Derek. Like I said, you’ve either been sitting over my shoulder as we were putting this together. But this was the point that I was going to ask you, Dell. You know, what are you kind of seeing in the future? You know, we know, I’ve been doing polyethylene 30 years, we’ve I’ve seen a lot of changes in pressure capacity, life expectancy, the resin improvements. You know, now we’ve got for, what do you see down the line? From the doubt perspective, since you kind of you’re at the very beginning of this whole Old stage and in the piping process?

Dell Doyle  45:45

Well, you know, Garry, I think we could do an entire seminar on just this subject right here. Um, but I’ll tell you, Derek, I get asked this question a lot. You know, I get asked from when are we going to get better slump resistance to be able to go to 24 inch Dr. Seven, you know, the oil patch really would like to have that. We get asked questions. When can we go from 180 to 190 200? You know, and these are all different questions that I have. But well, I can’t give specific comments on projects, I can share this with you. Right now in North America, I don’t know where you would lease a high temperature testing station. Whether it’s Dow or the other resin companies chasing after this, the testing capabilities is very limited. We’ve done we have a lot of tests ongoing, we started developing the next generation part 2016 2017, something like that was where it started really going forward, and gussto. So we’ve had several years working on this. Unfortunately, with this, you do have several iterations that you have to go through. And sadly, sometimes we don’t know if it’s going to pass until you’re at 1415 18,000 hours sometimes. And that’s what’s really tough when he do this. Now, there are some design innovations that’s happening on the the carbon footprint standpoint. So I don’t know if folks here in the audience, if this is important to you, and if it is, please get back with your ISCO representative. But if you’re looking at carbon neutral ICT or carbon neutral materials, please let us know because the two latest innovations that dals or project styles announced was first was a nuclear plant that were small nuclear modular reactor that we’re building on the Texas Gulf Coast, it’s actually pretty exciting. The partner is x energy, we’re going to have that online by 2030. So we’re going to lower our carbon emissions through for the electricity to produce the ethylene. And the second one is our path to zero project up in Alberta, which in the Canadian dollars, I think I saw the Canadian Post report is $11.2 billion investment. And this is gonna be the world’s first net neutral co2 facility. So we’re going to produce hydrogen capsule hydrogen, recycle it back in the co2 that is produced, we’re going to capture that stick that back in the ground. And so it’s really exciting stuff that’s happening, you know, cuz as, like, Canada’s trying to move to carbon taxes and, and they’re really focusing on the carbon footprint of things. These are important things as project managers we have to consider. So let us know as an industry, please. I know each one of my resin competitors are working on similar projects, you know, and different scopes of this. So that’s something that’s happening on the innovation. The next innovation is kind of someone that it’s very easy as, you know, we had 36 away, we have 4710, one of our 4712 or, or whatever that that new one looks like or if you’re in the ASA world, yet P ad p 100. You have some people that p 112. Although that has some questionable performance benefits, but the next step above that new P 125. Wins that’s coming out. These are all innovations that the industry is chasing after I don’t have a timeline for that, but I wouldn’t necessarily be holding my breath for anything soon. The I think the next generation pert will come out before that.

Garry Bouvet  49:35

Oh, good. Well, I know I know your I know Dow and yourself won’t won’t sit still you guys will all constantly be developing new and new improvements in existing resins and bringing newer things to the marketplace, even long after I’m gone out of this industry as well. So we appreciate everything. You guys do their Adele for us, Dell.

Dell Doyle  50:02

Oh, you’re welcome. And please let us know, if you have innovation place where we can support you, we have a big interest in hydrogen that’s coming around. So we’re developing a lot of data for the industry. So it’s just, if you have something that you need, guys, please let us know. And maybe we can help serve you.

Garry Bouvet  50:25

Fantastic. Well, next sale just to wrap up, you know, I can’t bring these I’m not able to do these things without the company that stands behind me. And that’s ISCO industries. For those of you who aren’t familiar necessarily with us who we are, we are the national HDPE solutions provider largest in in the country. You can see our footprint is all of North America. specialising specifically in polyethylene, thermal plastic piping systems, we have not only the pipe and fittings, but the fusion equipment to put it together, whether that’s, you know, renting the equipment, or if you’re in need of actually purchasing machine, we have that available with various options, full fabrication custom fab, our motto has always been if you can draw it, and we can build it. And that still holds true today, we just actually went through I just went through an exercise on a on a design and had to make some alterations, based on the limitations of of what we could do. But customers still pleased and I give them the overall design and he was looking for on his structure. You’ve got a full engineering estimating technical staff that can help you know whether it’s specifications that you need, designing a helping design a project or structure of some time. Also all the fusion training education that we can provide, we’re here to make sure your projects go the way you want them and give you the ultimate results that you’re looking for out of your out of your system. And we want to make it make it done, right. We’ve got all of these great insights, they’re all available online. If you’ve missed some in the past, you want to go back and check other topics. There’s a wide range of insights available with a lot of great guest speakers on those. We have podcasts, we got can library, all of our fittings are full CAD libraries available on public for you to download. And if you need it for your design, lots and lots of great resources on our website, always start there is a great place. As I mentioned, our CAD library, all of those are available in a 3d format for you to plug into your design criteria. If you’re out here today, and you need us some CEU credits, take a second I’ll leave this screen up, take a picture and scan that QR code there that you see. And that’ll get you the link to get get your credits or you can email us if that’s scanning apps, not an option, email us at ISCO dash five.com/ceu. And we’ll make sure you get your your our CEU PDH. Credit for today’s participation. And lots of other ways to connect with us. Many of these I don’t even I don’t even do. I am on LinkedIn. But we’ve got Facebook and what used to be known as Twitter, I guess is now X. Lots and lots of areas for those Gen Z or Gen Xers that are using all of these wonderful technologies. And with that, let me check the Dell hang with me. Let me check the questions. See if there’s anything else that’s popped in here. I’ve

Dell Doyle  54:30

been trying to type answers as they’ve been coming up. Very good. The anonymous person for the carbon footprint, please just reach out to

Garry Bouvet  54:43

us. Oh, yeah, we no longer need Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. Well, I don’t see anything in there that I think we’ve got. So with that. We’re right on the end of our time, Dell. Thank you again for joining Yes, today, you’re participating with me. You sure, add a lot more. Take my knowledge level up quite a bit every time I get to spend some time with you. So thanks for joining me on insights today.

Dell Doyle  55:15

Yeah, thanks for having me, Garry. It is an honor. And thank you for all the difficult questions you send my way. It gives me something to keeps me out of trouble.

Garry Bouvet  55:24

Absolutely. Well, I’ve heard you need that from time to time. So yes, you’re absolutely right. And thank you to our audience. We appreciate your time. Come back and join us again, as we look at our website, see upcoming segments that we’ve got. We look forward to talking to you. And until then, happy fusion. Thank you very much.