Discover the importance of large diameter pipes in meeting infrastructure development, sustainability, and industry demands. Learn about efficient water distribution, resilience against environmental challenges, and more.

Hear about the future of infrastructure as we explore the growing importance of large diameter HDPE pipes. As infrastructure demands rise, these pipes become essential for efficient water distribution, sewage systems, and energy transmission. You’ll learn how advancements in materials and manufacturing processes have made large diameter HDPE pipes more durable, efficient, and cost-effective. See how these pipes are meeting current needs while tackling future challenges, from environmental sustainability to resilient infrastructure development.

Key insights include:

• Role of large diameter pipes in infrastructure development
• Trends and advancements shaping the large diameter pipe industry
• Versatility and impact of large diameter pipes
• The future of the large diameter pipe market

Garry 

Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to another edition of ISCO insights. My name is Garry Bouvet. I’ll be your host today for this February, Leap Year edition of insights. Pleasure that you’re joining us today. Thank you very much. We’re going to be talking a lot of things the large diameter HDPE pipe. And with that, let’s go through a set of instructions really quick. I want to make sure that for all of you who are on here joining us today, that your video and audio are turned off, which we’ve done automatically, we can’t hear you. So it improves our quality on the presentation. If you’ve got any trouble issues with getting connected, getting on accessing the webinar, please go to our chat box. And we’ll try to help you out with any of those technical issues. If you got a specific question, which we hope there’s a lot of them regarding the topic that you want to try to have answered today. I’ve got my good friend, Jeremy Becker back here behind the scenes, he’s going to be fielding all those questions and responding to those, as well as we’ll try to respond to some of those in live fashion. But use that in the q&a box that you see down at the bottom of your screen. So those are the basic steps of the what to do on this webinar. And I am very pleased to introduce my good friend, longtime colleague, Mike James, to the show, Mike, welcome to ISCO insights.

Mike James 

This is your first big you had to do that, Garry? Gosh, darn it. We’ve done webinars, but thank you. Yes. I’m honored to be with you today, Garry. Thanks. It is.

Garry 

It is a pleasure. I’ve done a lot of traveling with you over the years and getting to do this show with you. For those that are on the show today. Mike, give them a little bit intro and your background and who you are and and your experience with the topic that we’re covering today.

Mike James 

Yep, sounds good. My name is Mike James. I live in Tucson, Arizona, by the way, it’s 70 degrees today in the desert. So it’s beautiful. We love it been in the pipe industry for probably 30 Some years about the same as you Garry. Right? Yes, I’m able to travel the world and see a lot of different things in the pipeline industry. And, and I’m pleased to see you all these people in on soup, infrastructure superheroes joining us today. So it’s, it’s cool to see but glad glad to be talking about large diameter pipe.

Garry 

Well, we’re glad you’re here, Mike. And we’ve got we’ve got a lot of great things to talk about today. So with that, we’re gonna go ahead and get dive right into this topic today, Mike. And, you know, when we define large diameter, and you and I’ve been doing this a long time, right. And when I started in the industry, you know, over 30 years ago, large diameter pipe, I mean, a 36 inch pipe job was was huge, right? It was a large job. That’s not the case anymore. Third 36 inch pipe pretty, pretty commonplace. We’re talking like sizes, you know, 54 and 63 inch, are very common. And we had some limitations, with wall thicknesses and so forth. Mike, give us a little bit more background on that and kind of how we’ve evolved into some of the sizes we’re seeing now.

Mike James 

Yeah, I think you’re right, Garry, I remember as a young guy in the business buying a 36 inch fusion machine for the first time. And that was like a massive deals like buying your first house. Well, today, those are just just commonplace, right? I mean, we’ve got, we’ve got equipment today that handles much larger diameter pipe, because the pipe capabilities have gotten so much bigger today. So wall thicknesses, as you mentioned a second ago, good example, you know, a two or three inch wall thickness that’s still pretty heavy wall, you can handle a lot of pressure. But as your pipe diameters get bigger, you know, those wall thicknesses get bigger. So the resins and the extrusion equipment, all of that is much better today to be able to manufacture Much, much thicker walls and also larger diameters. So for years, Garry, you know, this in the US and North America, you know, 54 and 63 minutes for kind of our max capabilities that still commonly produced really all over North America. But what I’ve seen and what we’re going to talk about today is, man, the capabilities around the globe have gone up so much more and we’re starting to see that in North America, which is pretty cool. Yeah,

Garry 

and, you know, there were limitations in a lot of things right, whether it be of fusion equipment, the ability of manufacturers to produce wall thicknesses necessary to handle the specific pressures, right. So even when we were in the 54 and 63 inch pipe we were dealing with With what we considered thin wall, right, low, you know, DRS, from the crusher capacity, and now that’s all improved. And we’ll talk more a little bit more about how that has improved. Yeah,

Mike James 

we have some, we have some of our pipe partners on on this on this webinar joining us and, and we have some from in North America and also around the world as well. And it’s just cool to see, because we’ve got we’ve got good quality manufacturers on with us as well as lots of engineers and contractors and, and I’m just looking at the list of people. It’s, it’s impressive. Thanks, everybody for for joining us. Yeah.

Garry 

And Mike, you know, we see a lot of various applications that are bringing in that are using larger and larger diameter HDPE pipe, but you know, the first one is, you know, municipal water supply and distribution, right, we’ve got to get water from point A to point B, you and I both know how, how precious water is becoming across the country is if people have continued to deal with, you know, drought scenarios, and, you know, irrigation, evaporation and all those different things, right. So, you know, water, municipal water supply is continuing to evolve?

Mike James 

Well, it is our most precious resource. And I’m saying that living in the desert, right? I know how valuable it is, and how important it is out west for sure. But even really, across the country, it’s it’s hyper important, and then you go around the world, you go to the Middle East, and that is I mean, it’s it’s extremely important for everybody. So we’ve got to have it, some not losing water and having a leak free system. I mean, it’s it’s great that HDPE pipe can do that. So that’s that’s definitely a big market for us.

Garry 

Absolutely. And then conversely the wastewater, right, the return of that same water that’s been used. Now we got to capture it, you know, re reuse it as another opportunity industrial applications that we’re seeing, and we’re going to talk more about some of these different different projects, this just gives some people an idea of where we’re seeing this pipe going in marine applications, right, we’ve got a neat project that was a Marine float and sink type of a project, I think the largest solid wall pipe in North America was was that project that we’ll talk about, right? And, you know, not only just pipe conveyance, Mike, we’re seeing things, you know, structure related, right, whether you can see, you know, some pictures, some unique fittings that have to go along with these piping systems. Tell us more about what you’ve seen with your experience traveling the globe. Yeah,

Mike James 

I think you know, domestically and, and also internationally, you know, we’re talking about two types of pipe retirement solid wall pressure pipe that you see in a lot of these pictures we’re showing. But you also see in three of these photos, what we call profile wall pipe, and profile wall pipe today can be made in really large diameters up to four meter in diameter. Globally, domestically, maybe a little bit less than that. But we use that pipe, it’s all low pressure or gravity. It’s typically gasketed. But some people are actually but fusing profile wall pipe together. And then we use it as you see in some of these fabricated structures. We use it also for slip lining culverts in our snap tight division. We use it with spiral light, but there’s a lot of wet wells out there that or maybe concrete that can be HDPE. There’s a lot of geothermal vaults that are made out of profile wall pipe. And then that bottom picture on the right corner was a really cool project at Lake Kivu in in Africa, where we did a big methane extraction project. I think we’re going to show some more slides on that. So solid wall pressure pipe, profile wall pipe as well.

Garry 

Yeah, and you know, these are continuing to grow and evolve. Just about every time I think I’ve seen it all. We get we get something new and unique that comes comes across our plate. So and I don’t think to see that changing anytime soon. And you mentioned geothermal vaults. Even the culvert realigning and rehab, so even the landfills, we’re seeing, you know, some of that large diameter pipe or that those profile for tanks and condensate sumps and in different things, a lot of different avenues, looking at corrosion resistant, leak free pipes for those systems. You know, the importance in infrastructure, Mike, I mean, there’s, you know, all of those markets that we’ve that you’ve mentioned, have different needs, right, have different priorities associated with them. And some of the key elements of polyethylene, lend themselves all very well to meeting those requirements that we talked about with polyethylene, the flexibility, the leak free, you mentioned, the durability, all of those things, polyethylene really provides a great benefit to them.

Mike James 

Yeah, Garry out, you know, our infrastructure is in need of some serious repair, right? I mean, we’ve got some really aging infrastructure, we also have a tremendous amount of growth. I was in Phoenix this week, and that city is blowing up, right? There’s, there’s lots of cities like that. So it’s two things, it’s aging infrastructure that needs repair. And then it’s all of these new, these new infrastructure projects going on, which is great, we need it. I guess the early message I would like to say to everybody on this call is, if you know, all of the benefits of HDPE. And probably everybody on this already does, because you’re already using it, you SPECT it, you’ve designed it. For smaller medium diameters, those same benefits exist today, we’re just going to go a lot bigger in diameter, we want to make sure you know what the capabilities are today in North America.

Garry 

Right. And so you’ve talked about and, you know, water conservation, you know, we touched on it earlier, you know, we see this growth continuing this need for larger diameter conveyance pipes that have the benefits that polyethylene brings. And one of the key initiatives, as you know, from the conservation side, is the ESG. And I know, you’ve been really kind of tied into that, over the last couple of years, you want to maybe touch on what that is, some people in the audience may not be aware of what those initiatives are.

Mike James 

Yeah, I will. I mean, and I think, to jump on that a little bit before the global pipe market is massive. I mean, this is 2021 data, it’s $127 billion in pipe, you know, it’s it’s just massive, it’s growing every year. It shows growth, they’re really what’s growing even quicker, is the demand for plastic pipes is growing even faster than that. And we know that here in the US and in Canada, North America, the PE Alliance and PPI will talk about this as well, I think David thinks on the call. We’re taking market share, right? And there’s a reason we’re doing is because we offer a good, better solution, really, we’ve got leak free, we’ve got corrosion resistant, all of those things. And that ties into the ESG initiatives that are out there. And if you don’t know what that is, you will, I’m sure everybody on this call probably has heard ESG whether you’re a believer in it or not, it’s here, it’s not going anywhere. I think HDPE pipe solves and helps a lot of those initiatives. ESG is taking responsibility for a more sustainable world, every large corporation, probably every engineering firm, everybody’s being faced with it, including us. And if we can help with that, which we can I think our pipes provide a lot of solutions towards ESG.

Garry 

Very good. Thank you, Mike. That’s, yeah, well, that’s not going away. The demand for that. Let’s touch on, when we get into large diameter pipe, there are some things that, you know, have to be considered and, you know, and looked at when you’re looking at a large, large diameter project. Now, let’s start with the transportation now. You know, back several years ago, back then, both you and I were getting started in this. If you needed a large diameter pipe outside the range of what manufacturers could produce, you know, in their extrusions. Right, that pipe was towed, right, Mike, you’ve seen I’ve seen these pictures of pipe being tugged, you know, across the ocean, different places. That’s, that’s changed as more companies have have opened up extrusion capabilities, being able to transport it via trucks, but there’s still a lot of logistical issues that you got to handle with this large diameter pipe. Yeah,

Mike James 

there is Garry, I think what I would say is there’s there’s a handful of manufacturers that can do that can extrude into into a body of water. And you can tow along lakes right to your project site. That’s not for every site, right? It’s difficult. It came at some cost. There’s some big benefits when you have some projects maybe that are near a coastal area, maybe a water intake or an outfall line. But really most of the projects are going to be handled by by normal freight normal trucks. Again, back to the ESG. Our pipes are much lighter than other pipes. I think I mentioned you earlier A 15 foot section of 120 inch RCP weighs 75,000 pounds. Think about what that costs to transport versus a lighter weight, longer piece of HDPE. We can supply 50 feet, and it’s going to weigh half that right. So there’s some savings there fuel savings, all of that. The fact is in North America, today, we’re producing much larger diameter pipes, we can get it to anywhere you want. all over North America, we’ve done that across the country up into Canada, you can get one, maybe two sticks of pipe on and we’re gonna maximize it as much as we can. And get it to your site safely.

Garry 

Yep. Yep. That is always a big concern. It’s, you know, it’s a lot of trucks when we start talking some of these big jobs. Mike, I’m going to stop for a second here, we’ve got a question that came in from Leo, asking about longevity? And what would be the typical cause of failure in HDPE? Pipe compared to traditional constructions? materials, like concrete or metallic? And great, great question, Leo. Thanks. I’m gonna let us answer a mic. And then, you know, of course, may all all add in when you forget something or miss something on it.

Mike James 

Yeah, I think the first thing I would say Leo is, you know, we offer a really good solution with HDPE pipes. It’s not for every single project out there. So we need to make sure that we fit into the parameters that we can handle safely, right? The temperature range, the pressure range, whatever materials are flowing through it, we want to make sure that a pipeline gets designed correctly. And we can help maybe vet that and double check those things with you, as well. I mean, pipelines gotta get installed correctly. So I think what I would say is, obviously, the specifications have to be right, the construction methods have to be right, we’re going to talk about construction methods here in a minute, Garry, the fusion process, and all of that has to be done correctly as well. If you do all of those things correctly, HDPE is very, very resilient. And our failure rate is very, very low. Again, it’s gotta be in the right applications, which we can serve a lot of them. But that’s, that’s what I would say, Garry, what about you? Yeah,

Garry 

I mean, you know, if you’re comparing to metal and concrete, Leo, you know, the typical failures in those types of materials are really more you know, corrosion related. That is a non a non factor with the, with the polyethylene, those are gone away using the polyethylene. And a typical, as Mike said, a typical failure is either third party damage, which can happen with polyethylene, but also maybe a an incorrect fusion, or something to that. But again, if you do the right steps, we’re going to talk about some of those quality control measures a little bit later. You’re not going to have those issues. And you’re, I think, you know, about, go ahead, Mike, our

Mike James 

pipe gets used when other pipes fail, right? I’m thinking about like, three PCCP jobs that we’ve done here recently, up in Seattle, down in Florida, here in Arizona, where I live in Tucson, both pipes have failed. They just they just didn’t stand up to whatever was running through them. And we’ve been able to go in there, slip line those pipelines, right. There’s trenchless, technology, pipe bursting slip lining. Murphy pipeline does a great job out there, right of compression fit. So we’re actually replacing and fixing a lot of damage and repair broken pipelines.

Garry 

Absolutely. Great question, Leo. Thanks, folks, keep those coming in. And then, like, you know, other things with these large diameters is, you know, the preparation, the excavation, you’re going to have those with, with any material, regardless of what you use. So really, Nothing’s different there. But you touched on it, the weight of the pipe itself, it’s polyethylene is significantly lighter weight than the traditional construction materials that they’re using. Now, it’s still super heavy, right? I mean, you’re not gonna be able to go lift up the end you and I aren’t, but being able to handle maybe even with less equipment on the job site than what you would traditionally use with those other materials.

Mike James 

And gear, I know you’ve been in the gym because you and I were in it last week. I mean, I might be able to lift some of that pipe with with with my 45 workouts but now really what what you’re seeing here in these pictures is is everyday construction equipment that’s on site. Normal excavators vacuum works right our friends in Tulsa vacuum works doing a vacuum lift. You know whether it’s a forklift or reach lift Do see a crane that picture in the top middle, that actually is a new photo we actually got today. That’s a that’s a project in Romania. Actually, thank you, Richard Coombs, for sharing that, that’s a project that Jose, our friends in Spain are doing in Romania, that’s 2000 millimeter pipe right there, they do show some cranes lifting that, but that’s a big section, right? But really, our pipe is light, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be your normal everyday construction equipment. After that you can use, what you typically don’t need is side booms and things like that. They’re they’re lifting steel pipe, or maybe some heavy concrete pipe. So I think those methods that you see there are really, really common. Yep.

Garry 

And then, you know, when we’re talking installation, right, I mean, one of the other things that, you know, goes into that is, a lot of the adjoining of the polyethylene pipe is done outside the trench, above ground. And so maybe your trench excavation can be smaller, because you’re not having to go in and have people and equipment inside, you know, pushing pipe ends together, and so forth. So there are some, you know, other benefits there from the installation and construction method.

Mike James 

Yeah, I think what I would tell everybody is just be aware, if you’re engineering a project or constructing one, you know, your normal construction methods for maybe shorter, heavier lengths of pipe that you’re used to doing down in the ditch, you have today, we can do most of that with HDPE, above ground, longer lengths, fuse joints, right weld up a lot of sections, and then lift that down into in the ditch. That’s, that’s a little bit of difference apples and oranges. What I would say is, if you need help with that reach out to us, we can walk you through the different construction methods, the different fusion equipment, the different in ditch capability, equipment, things like that, you know, flanges, and spooling and fittings, slightly different, but actually, I think it speeds up your project site much, much, much more, and it’s gonna save you some money on a construction job.

Garry 

Very good. Mike, thanks. Got another question here. Mike. From Allen, one of the largest issues I’ve experienced in the past projects is large diameter is coming out of round under its own weight. What can be done to minimize this, especially if it needs to be stored for a period of time? Well, that’s a great question, Alan. And one of the things I think I had a picture earlier, it go back right there. Yeah, right there on the that picture on the far right, Allen, and you’ll see that kind of cribbing that protective on the insides of the pipe that would be on both ends of the pipe that can be used in a polyethylene being a thermal plastic is going to expand and contract sitting on a job site, right. And it’s going to, it’s going to sag This helps keep those ends somewhat round. And the real benefit comes when you put it in the fusion machine. And you’ve got the hydraulic clamping capabilities to help reroute that pipe and get back to shape. So when we join those ends together, we don’t have an issue.

Mike James 

Yeah, Garry, there’s some projects that we’ve done maybe some offshore projects, maybe if you’re sinking pipe, right? When you sink pipe, it goes under some stress is there, a lot of stress is actually good. Mackay ocean engineering, when they engineer a project that goes offshore, whether it’s an intake or offshore line, they’ll they’ll recommend cradles, like so you store, store your pipe on cradles out in the field, and you don’t want to stack you don’t want to stack too high, you don’t want to compress the pipe, it is thermoplastic. I think if you handle that, from the factory, to the trucks to storing it correctly in the field, you’re not going to have any issues.

Garry 

Yep. Great. Great question, Alan. And folks keep those questions rolling in. That’s that’s what we’re here to do. Mike, we got another one that came in. Colin asked, What are the most economical and efficient methods to join large diameter HDPE with metallic piping? So, Mike, guy, you want to start with that one or?

Mike James 

Yeah, I think I think if you’re going to connect to a dissimilar material, there’s mechanical fittings out there, Garry, whether it’s a flat flange or some sort of a mechanical coupling that will connect to dissimilar material. There’s, yeah, I think those are the two methods I can think of offhand, what do you what are you thinking about?

Garry 

Yeah, I mean, there’s even some other mechanical coupling manufacturers that we’ve used, that it can make more, it’s like, like a compression type. You may you’re going to need a stiffener probably on the inside of the polyethylene. So it may be a specialty type of application. It’s not going to be something that’s sitting on the shelf, but there are options and supplier manufacturers partners that we can work with. that can provide transitions from one material to the other. But flange is by far probably the most common method that I’ve seen.

Mike James 

You’ll see that in some of our pictures here, when you’re connecting to a valve or maybe a different different pipeline for whatever reason, those are those are pretty common in right.

Garry 

Alright, right, great. We’ll keep moving on here. When we talk about, you know, polyethylene, Mike, you and I, you know, preach the benefits, we’ve touched on them in in multiple facets already, just as a reminder that the key characteristics for polyethylene, right is flexibility. This pipe, you know, has been radius, it’s why it’s used in trenchless application. Some of those you’ve mentioned, directional drilling, pipe bursting, slip lining, the hydraulics the C factor, it’s 150. And that’s constant for the life of the pipe. So that doesn’t deteriorate over time. The corrosion resistance, the durability, it’s a very durable product, you you’ve got mining projects, Mike, the out there in the out west, that you’ve seen this pipe, dragged around and moved on job sites and exposed, you know, to the sunlight for 3040 years, right? Yeah,

Mike James 

for sure. I mean, I think our pipe gets used in the harshest environments, I mean, aggregate plants, mining, for sure, gold, copper, and you hardrock mining, lithium mining today, by the way, which is very popular, but really, in any of the most challenging applications, we do a lot of directional drilling, right, we supply pipe for directional drilling, where our pipe comes in really handy for that. And then I love it, they transition back to maybe conventional materials, when they do that. And I’m like, just use our pipe for the whole thing. And you’d be good. But our pipe is really good. The flexibility as long as you understand how to handle the flexibility. It’s fine. But if you’re going to put it up in a pipe rack or something like that, just be aware you’re going to need to to handle that correctly, as well. So we’re seeing that as well. But there’s a lot of good advantages. I think the biggest ones are of course, hydraulic flow, corrosion resistant, the fused joint is the, in my opinion, the best thing about our pipe. Absolutely.

Garry 

Well, we touched on, you know, these production advancements why we’re able to make, you know, why are the manufacturers able to produce larger diameter pipe than they then they used to, you know, 1520 30 years ago, when we came into the business, Mike, you know, we hear this term, you know, low some low slump or essence. You want to expand upon that, for some in the audience who may not be as familiar with that terminology.

Mike James 

Yeah, I’ll give you what I can on it. I mean, it’s, it’s pretty simple. The resins that we have today are p 4710. They’ve been advanced a couple of times already. And in our careers, Garry, they’re going to continue to advance right, the next generation of resin will be out there soon. Same thing if you go outside of North America, p 100. And even some of the advancements they’ve had there, they started out with p 80. P 100. When pipe has gotten bigger and also thicker, they’ve come up with some low slump resins that actually extrude better and hold the roundness better when you’re extruding the pipe. So we’re able to maintain the wall thicknesses, and also able to extrude much larger diameters. So just know that the cable, the capabilities are there, the extrusion equipment has gotten better as well. It’s quicker, it’s faster, it’s more dynamic than it used to be. Those two advancements together have brought us to where we are today.

Garry 

Yep, very good. And, you know, when we talk, you know, piping systems night, we’re not just talking pipe, there’s a whole world of fittings that need to go with it to to make a system complete, you know, whether that’s elbows or tees or any some unique, you know, construction aspects that we have to do. And the capabilities are there to manufacture and produce these large diameter fittings and you can see, you know, quite a few examples here of some of the, some of the fittings that are you can see produced in the large diameter pipe sizes.

Mike James 

That’s a sexy slide. I like that one there. There’s what I would say, I mean, if you’re going to put a pipeline in you obviously have to have the accessories and the equipment to go with it right. So the capabilities today to produce all of these large diameter fittings has gotten much better right. So the pipe first, the fittings and the fabrication have to come with it. And of course, the fusion process is next as well. And I think you’re going to show that coming up as well. Yeah,

Garry 

you know, and here’s some, you know, some different fittings, right, some intake.

Mike James 

Those are diffusers, right going on and outright coming off. Yep. Yep, yep.

Garry 

So you can see the flexibility and that pipe right out behind in the foreground and the background of that picture snaking around in the in the water.

Mike James 

Yeah, so custom fan. We showed some of those pictures earlier degrees, some of the geothermal vaults and some of the methane intake extraction devices, we build really anything. You can kind of draw or design, we probably can make that out of HDP.

Garry 

Right. Yeah, that’s the fun part. Right. That’s, that’s some of the cool things that that we get to be involved in. And you mentioned fusion equipment, Mike, and you got to be able to put the pipe together. As you said, this, the way that we join HDPE pipe is probably one of the single most paramount benefits of polyethylene, providing that monolithic joint that’s, that’s leak free, you have fuse two pieces of pipe together, it now becomes one piece of pipe, and that you have to have the equipment to do it. Here’s just a sampling of, of some of the large diameter equipment that’s out there to do that type of fusion work.

Mike James 

Yeah, correct. So if you can put a pipe system together using both fusion, the but fusion method, that’s, in my opinion, the best way to do it. So today, the capabilities for both fusion are up to up to 3.5 meter, and maybe even larger, and some others of the world. Today, domestically, we got, we’ve got up to 2.7 meter diameter in our fleet. But yeah, the capabilities for those fusion machines like you seeing them in a pictures, those are available, those are here. They’re here in North America today.

Garry 

And speaking of the fusions, one of the questions that we get frequently, regardless of what size pipe or fuse and migrate is, how do we how do we make ensure quality of the joint? How do we know the joint is good? Right. And that is a big aspect. And that starts with certified fusion training of the contractors, right, or whoever is putting the pipe together. Making sure that you know, when you get into large diameter, the mechanics of the equipment, there’s, it’s just because you confuse four inch pipe doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to be able to fuse 88 inch pipe together.

Mike James 

Yeah, good point here, there’s there’s four steps on the slide that we’re going to we’re going to talk about and fusion is one of the primary ones. And there are some differences when you get into these large diameter, heavy wall pipes. What I would suggest is, if anybody’s designing are going to put this in the ground in the future, just call a timeout pull in some experts. Let’s talk about large diameter fusion because there’s different standards ASTM standards that we use today, there’s a range that you can weld pipe at. There’s ISO standards, there’s DVS standards. And you mix that in with some of the low slump resins. It’s not difficult, but you do want to make sure that your team whoever’s doing the fusion has been qualified on those large diameter pipes. And so going through a proper fusion training, I would do that on any project anyways, you’re going to want to test at the factory. Thanks for showing that Garry, you want to test to make sure my pipe was made correctly. Right. So how do we do that right, you want to test the resin, you want to make sure you do a high speed tensile impact, make sure your pipe is good before you start shipping, lots and lots of truckloads out to the field. Let’s just do a quality test to make sure the pipe is manufactured correctly and it’s good. And then when you get it in the field. Once you’ve trained your team on how to fuse and you’ve tested the pipe at the factory, incorporate some good technology use the data logger. Make sure that that’s Specht in on your project. So now you have traceability on who welded your pipe when they welded it, what the parameters were. All of those things that still won’t tell you 100% If your joints are good or not, but it sure gives you some some peace of mind that they’re being done consistently. And you know who’s doing it when it was done. All of that the way I like to use the belt and suspenders on the testing. If you’re doing large diameter, pull the guided side bend test in and do a field test. Let’s do a fuse. Garry, I want to make sure your Fusion joints are good. We’ve trained you the pipe is good. We’ve datalog your joint. Let’s cut one section out let’s do a infield guided side bend test. If you do all of those things, you’re going to have a really really good system. Those are the those are the four steps I would recommend for Sure,

Garry 

absolutely. And, and again, this we, we recommend this, regardless of size of pipe, this is not unique just to large diameter. But the certification training on the equipment handling is a little bit different when you get into these large diameters and like I said, just because you’re trained on a smaller size machine, you may have the background of fusion, but you need to get comfortable and be trained thoroughly on the proper operation of the equipment. And that is a that is a big thing. Here

Mike James 

we have I know we have a lot of engineers, we have a lot of municipalities and owners on the call. If anybody wants information on those different standards and what’s available at the end of this presentation, we’ll give you a QR code and an email address. We’ll be glad to get you that data to make sure that gets put in your specs correctly.

Garry 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Mike, let’s feel the cup. We got some more questions rolling in. And we’re going to take a moment here and try to answer one or two of these. Daniel asked, Do you think pressure ratings will ever increase with large diameters? And I looking at I think he’s what she’s talking about 60 inch and larger? And I’ll answer that question in my new add in anything that I missed. But Daniel, we’re already seeing that we, you know, have the ability now to you know, manufacture pipe, you know, much, much greater thicknesses than what we used to now, Daniel doesn’t specify what kind of pressure rating he’s looking for. But, you know, the the wall thicknesses Now, Mike that we’re seeing with with polyethylene being manufactured, are much, much greater.

Mike James 

Yeah, for sure. That’s a great question. The answer is yes, they will increase for sure. You know, we’re seeing up to six inch thick pipe. I mean, I think as resin gets better, you may not need to do that as well. But the answer is yes. There’s a couple of examples I saw just posted this week, actually. Our friend my new friend Jen’s over in Germany. He’s working on a project in Asia right now. He’s doing a chemical plant cooling waterline. 20 To 50 millimeter, which is 88 inches for us Americans. Dr. 17. So heavy wall 88 inch pipe over in Asia. Jose posted one today that Romania project that that’s going it’s two meter diameter Drs. 41. So pretty thin, all the way down to Dr. 17. So, yeah, I think the answer is yes. Yeah.

Garry 

And Dr. Seven teams pressurized at 125 psi. So, you know, I’d again don’t know Daniel, what specific pressures you’re looking for. But that’s substantial. That’s something that we couldn’t do, you know, 1015 years ago. So thanks for that question. And Nicole asked, may have missed it. What does the data logger provide? Great question it calls into, we’re just on that slide right here. So the data logger is a recording device that monitors the fusion process that the operator is doing. So it’s hydraulically measuring, you know, not only time, but pressures, time for melting the pipe, the pressure that he’s using for fusion, does the does the Operator do the right shift sequence on the machine, it’s capturing all those steps being done on the on the fusion joint. So that you know that the the which you know, part of the confusion is, is time and pressure. And so that there’s a specific time for each step, as well as a specific pressure rating or setting for that. And the data loggers capturing all that as the operators doing the work?

Mike James 

I think gear to add to that, and that’s a great question, Nicole. Sorry, we didn’t explain that further. But it also gives you a you know, a quick visual display. If if those parameters are being met, you’ll be able to look at that on the screen. You can also take that information at the end of the day. And your your your construction team can download that information so you can quickly review it. We do that on every single one of our fusions that are that we make in our fab shops and our technicians do, right we have that data every single night so we can see if everything was in the correct parameters. So it’s a good it’s a good way to check and make sure that you’re following procedures. Yep.

Garry 

Very good. Thanks, Nicole. helping us keep that make sure we cover everything that we’re supposed to cover, Mike, you know, we need our audience to help us do that. Especially as you’re getting older than me I think. Let’s see here. I thought I saw one more. Henry asked for cooling tower and process piping with normally clean water what are the prospects of biofilm formation and accumulation of deposits. You want to take that First Mike, and then I’ll fill in any gaps. Yeah,

Mike James 

I’m not sure I have the exact answer for that. But I think with the fact that it’s HDPE. And it’s it is a thermal plastic, I think the fact that films gonna you’re not gonna get much film buildup on there. I don’t know if you’ll get any Garry or not in that application. But it’s gonna be a lot less.

Garry 

Yeah, I mean, I’ve seen not specific to this application. But, you know, occasionally I’ll see a little scaling on pipes after they’ve been in, in a way, even a clean water service, you know, for, you know, 1520 years. Some of that’s just kind of degradation of any metal components that are in, you know, in the piping system itself. Right. But they’re very minut. They don’t impact any of the flow, and typically are, you could scrape it off with your fingernail, so it’s not like, like tuberculate motion that we see in metal or concrete pipes that are building up on the inside. Yeah, I

Mike James 

think when I would add that that’s a good way to answer that. I mean, it’s we’re using it in water every single day. Cooling towers. Yes, we use it in that district energy. You and I are at the district energy campus show last week, right? It’s being used in all of those applications, right. And we’re not getting that, that build up like you would see on maybe a piece of steel pipe. So great question. I think I think we can handle that better, for sure.

Garry 

Yep. Very good. All right. We’ll move on in the presentation. We’ll try to circle back to some more of these questions, please, please keep them rolling. And if we don’t happen to answer it live before the end of this presentation, we will definitely you’ll receive an email response to every question that that comes in. So please keep them rolling. Mike, let’s talk about some of these projects. We’ve referenced them in in throughout our discussion today. And so we are quickly rolling up on time here. So let’s go through this real quick. Yeah, let’s go through some of these this. You mentioned the Lake Kivu, methane gas extraction out of the lake in Africa.

Mike James 

Yeah, great application for HDP deep water methane extraction out of the Lake Kivu, which is a really deep lake with with lots of methane in it. HDPE the pipe of choice. Those are fun projects for us because we get to, we get to sell pipe but we get to build some really cool structures and sent people over there to weld pipe that was using 54 inch and 48 inch pipe helping to D gas that lake and get rid of that methane. fun project for sure.

Garry 

Yeah. You said some unique structures. That one back there. I always call that the Starship Enterprise. I mean, it looks like a spaceship. Sitting there behind those guys. I believe Mike, this project, this was the largest directional drill project. If I’m not mistaken. This was the city of Miami on a 54 inch. That HCP sewer line, right through downtown Miami. Yeah,

Mike James 

fixing some deteriorated concrete pipe, I believe is what was in that system before. So everybody knows the benefits of HDD. Our pipe is the primary pipe of choice for a reason. This just shows that we’ve gotten up to 54 inch I would expect that those sizes of grow as well in the future, but this was at that time. The largest directional drill pool in North America. Yeah,

Garry 

and I think total pull on this was was over 7000 feet. If I’m not mistaken. I might have that number wrong a little bit but quite quite a big, big project going downtown. Mike, this one I know you’re heavily familiar with the Steineker canal job here in the US for believe this was irrigate irrigation line?

Mike James 

Yeah, can it’s a canal enclosure canal conversion, what we call that and in the West, we have a we have a bunch of open canals that are just seeping water into the ground and also evaporating. When you enclose those canals you save at least 20% of that water by doing that, right. So talk about ESG water savings, all of that. There’s I don’t know how many miles but a bazillion miles of canals that are still open including in Arizona where I live. This is in Utah. This is this is a 78 inch pipe that got put in recently in Utah at stain occur. There’s more of these to be out there for sure. I think I think we talked about one coming up as well Garry, but in the West for sure canal enclosures are a big big thing. Yeah.

Garry 

And then you know, fusion machine, that bottom right picture that’s a called the McElroy Talon that’s a massive machine I’ll do up to 78 inch slightly different than some of the fusion machines you may be familiar with. This machine actually drives over the pipe so your pipe is strung out ahead Have you drive over the pipe lifted, bring it up into the upper middle area, that machine, do the fusion, lay it back down on the ground and drive forward. So fusion process a little bit different than maybe the traditional methods you’re used to seeing. Yeah, we’ve

Mike James 

used that talent on several projects, Garry, and I go back one slide real quick. And look at look at the top picture two excavators, right, 123. That’s a lot of pipe a couple of elbows in there, but using normal excavators that are on site already to lift and put that pipe in, in the ground. So thanks to our friend Natasha, and Andrew for for some of those pictures and their help on that project. Yeah,

Garry 

and you know, as I said earlier, the fusion is all done outside the trench. So your all your excavation is just just enough with that to be able to drop your pipe in. You don’t have guys having to be in a trench shoring and, and all those things that you got to do for safety, to protect those workers. Everything’s done outside the trench, right. This is another favorite of mine. This is a McLaughlin point up in Vancouver wastewater line fused up dragged out into into the canal or into the harbor, and then I think it was actually towed and tugged in place to its final position at the wastewater treatment facility. So this is kind of what I call a float and sink installation method. But really neat project 88 inch diameter pipe, largest solid wall pipe project to date in North America. Unless, Mike, you’re aware of one that I’ve missed over the last year to

Mike James 

give all my secrets away, Garry, but no, this is this is the and this is commonplace, as I mentioned earlier, I mean, this is being done in Asia, it’s being done in Romania today. I mean, this is pretty common place around the world. That’s that’s the one thing I want to make sure this team knows is if you’re going to design an HDPE large diameter pipe in place of something like McLaughlin, this was a steel pipeline design. And then they realized they could use HDPE. They changed the design put in a much superior system. And that system is going to be there for the next 100 years with no corrosion no issues. None of that right. So much improved system. Don’t feel like you’re the guinea pig. This stuff’s being done around the world. Right? This is a good example of it. Absolutely.

Garry 

Yeah. This was a fun project to be involved in. And then this one here, Mike, another canal enclosure that you mentioned enterprise canal. believe this was Idaho, if I’m not mistaken. Yep. And 63 inch diameter project. I know you’re you’ve been involved in this one as well.

Mike James 

Yeah, these again, these are becoming pretty commonplace, right? And 63 inches pretty common for us these days. We have lots of equipment and resources to take care of that. I think we have a really cool video we’re going to show here next. The governor, actually of Idaho talks about this project. Let’s go out and play that year. Okay.

Enterprise Canal Company is building a new 1.6 mile pipeline to modernize its irrigation infrastructure. It’s also building three aquifer recharge basins to enhance the Eastern snake plain aquifer. Idaho Governor Brad little toured these new leading Idaho water projects to underscore their value to the state of Idaho. I

want to thank the board and the enterprise Canal Company for making this investment. This project checks three different boxes. It improves water conservation. It enhances water reliability, and increases our ability to store and recharge water in the drought years.

The board created the aging infrastructure grant program for that purpose. It has funded 19 grant projects to improve water sustainability in Idaho so far, with more to come.

We have done some incredible things in the last few years. And for good reason.

Mike James 

Good stuff, Garry. I don’t know if we cut off there or not. But yeah, that’s cool. I mean, the governor of Idaho out there promoting right water conservation and using HDPE pipe. So another good application for sure.

Garry 

Right? Yep. That was That is a really unique project. So Mike, we’re we’re you know, quickly closing up on our time I know you and I could probably sit here and talk about this for for quite some time, but we’ve got about eight minutes left from our time slot. Let’s let’s talk a little bit about the outlook what what we see in the future. I know your crystal ball is getting a little hazy over time as you’re as you’re aging but what What do you think you’re gonna see what we’re seeing in the large diameter world regarding HDPE?

Mike James 

That’s twice now Garry, you call me old? I think he I HR departments on here and want them to take. I am getting Oh, we all are. Unfortunately,

Garry 

Mike Father Time is never loses, buddy. You know, we

Mike James 

have though, Garry that, that I like to call it tacit knowledge. That just means you got some gray area, you have lots of experience. So we

Garry 

said, Yeah, that’s good.

Mike James 

So what I would say and listen, I’ve been, I’ve been lucky enough to work on some really cool projects around the world, spend a lot of time in various parts. And it’s opened my eyes up on what the capabilities really are, that are out there today. And we have some great partners around the world that that are working on some really cool projects. Resin is going to continue to improve. The next generations are on the horizon. We’ve already seen it two or three times in our careers, it will get better, the residence will get better, the pressure ratings will will increase. And the diameters are going to get bigger, but residents are going to continue to approve. What’s the next one? I don’t know. But I just know they’re, they’re already darn good. Now we’ve got CEC three in our residence to help with the chlorine. We’re we’re already producing really good residence. Extrusion equipment. It’s it’s a it’s already there. It’s bigger today. And I think what we’ll see in North America is more large diameter extrusion equipment as the market continues to ask for it. The markets big, we’re going to continue to see more of that. So just imagine welding up to 138 inch solid wall pressure pipe today, that’s going to happen in North America soon. Right? So we’ve got those capabilities below 65 inch, everybody does, but it’s going to go into half. So it’s

Garry 

kind of a supply and demand. Right, Mike, the more you know, people are asking for it. You know, the more it’ll come because it’s already in what what are they doing in Europe in four and a half meter I believe is the largest

Mike James 

I’ve seen. I’ve seen your friends, a UPI, I think Mohammed might be on here as well, the guys are UPI they do a great job over in Abu Dhabi. They’re welding profile wall pipe like you see in that top picture there with Jeremy, their welding profile wall pipe up to four meter in diameter for lots of diesel power plant intake lines outfall lines, you look at the development and parts of the world, that stuff’s being done right now all the time. So that’s going to gravitate to North America as well. Yeah.

Garry 

You know, and, you know, the, the need the demand for, for moving, you know, fluids, right. Wherever, regardless of what it is, is going to continue to grow, as you said, Mike, so this is not going to go backwards any anytime, right. And, and the more we can bring polyethylene benefits, you know, to that market to that, you know, those different ends users, the better. Our whole environment is right.

Mike James 

Yeah, I think, you know, the demand to move water for sure is always going to be there. But I would also say the demand to fix the aging infrastructure that’s out there, like, what are you going to do to replace pipe has been in the ground for 3040, maybe 50 years already, let’s not put the same stuff in the ground, let’s put the better next generation pipe in the ground. And that’s really where I think we can help with all the advantages of HDPE. Whether it’s directional drilling, or, or slip lining, or just a new pipeline, I think the aging infrastructure is just as important as maybe any new water transportation out there.

Garry 

Right. So we’ll see if I can think we got a couple more questions in here, Mike, and we might be able to get to, before we wrap up. Let’s see here. What do we got Jeremy? Allen asked, when looking at large diameter pipes for projects. There are various SDRs available, I’m assuming along with desire production. What kind of lead time planning do you recommend with these various pipe sizes? And what are the production typical production run quantities that we need before making the pipe? Yeah, that’s a good that’s a big question. You know, and every project is different and unique. But Mike, why don’t you give a give a little snippet of what what do it here’s

Mike James 

what I would say I mean, you’re right, every project is different. So, you know, pipe manufacturers want as long of runs as they can possibly get. They want to flip the switch and make a A long section of pipe, whatever that is large diameter, you know, that may be different, but what I would say is pull us in early, right the earlier we get pulled in on your initial design, the more we can help you with the fittings, the fabrication, the mechanical fittings, the joints, that construction method, and make sure that your project gets specified the way it should. At that same time, we can talk to you about like, how to maximize those production runs, so you save money, how to maximize or minimize transportation as well. So no real answer, but I would say if you’re early on the design side, pull us in please and we’ll walk you through all of those steps as well.

Garry 

Absolutely get great question Alan. All right, Mike, we’re we got to be wrapping up we got a couple minutes and I’d be remiss without talking about ISCO reason you and I are both able to be here me in this fabulous studio talking about HDPE pipe you know ISCO we are HDP solutions provider that is our core product that is what we focus on 100% All day every day that’s what that’s what we do everything from you know pipe supply, fitting manufacturing fabrication capabilities, fusion equipment, largest fleet of equipment available for your projects, whether it’s to rent to purchase whatever you need incredible technical department I mean some of the smartest guys in the industry I’m proud to call my teammates here that can do your project estimating help you with those specifications that we talked about. As well as education training our fusion technicians are second to none and they are you know top drawer as far as being able to do whether it’s fuse your fuse the pipe on your job or train your team how to do the work so you know if you’ve got it you’re considering HDPE on a project. You know, as Mike said, please get us involved early and we can really help you navigate and make make that project of success for you and your client. If you want to communicate with us specifically about large diameter we got this little QR code here to scan to get more information specific on large diameter pipe from ISCO and we’ll be glad to help you and if other ways to connect with us Facebook, your LinkedIn you know Twitter all those whatever Twitter is now I pretty much forgot x I guess is what what it is now. All of those different methods. Come find us and we’re here to help you. With that said Mike, we have hit right at three o’clock. We are right on time. top of the hour. We appreciate everybody joining us today. Thank you so much for taking an hour of your time spent with Mike and I as we talked about large diameter HDPE pipe. Mike it’s been a true pleasure having you join me here on set. I appreciate it very much. Hopefully we can do it again sometime my friend.

Mike James 

Thank you appreciate everybody joining. Have a good day.